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timoska
09-29-2009, 08:57 PM
I've heard several comments regarding the fact that if you already have healthcare with your employer, it's not going to change.

However, I can't keep wondering if my company will continue to find it feasible to pay for great healthcare when the employees could just be placed on the ObamaCare plan for free. Seems like saving a shitload of money would be very appealing to the already overpaid executives.

This rings closer to home to those that have government jobs, since the people they work for are the ones putting ObamaCare into action.

In addition, since it's more likely most companies will stop paying for something that is offered for free, say goodbye to private hospitals. There is no way they will be able to function with the limited amount of money they would be getting at that point. I hope ObamaCare has enough funding to replace the private hospitals in their current locations.

The question of whether there will be enough to facilitate everyone, once everyone is on ObamaCare, also comes to mind. Seems like a bad situation is going to be made even worse.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with the emphasis on it being the humanitarian thing to do. It's just that there are still many questions that remain unanswered.

When looking at ObamaCare from this perspective, it sure reminds me of that One World Nation video Rico forced me to watch. See you all in the three block line for your check ups :no:

Rico
09-29-2009, 09:25 PM
Oh boy here we go again! It's only for the 5% of the people who can't afford it that will be covered. I sure as hell wish people would stop making excuses over something good and start getting mad over getting fucked in the ass in your own town by such corporations like Wal-mart.

I sure as hell hope a Public Health plan (Not that Fox media propaganda "Obamacare") will cover the people working at Wal-mart, since they can't even provide their own serfs (I mean workers) with affordable health plans. Wal-mart reap the profits while the tax payers pay for their workers health care.

When Wal-Mart comes to town, consumers often pay more than they save. Not only does Wal-Mart ask taxpayers to subsidize the building of its giant retail stores, Wal-Mart pays its workers so little they regularly are forced to use emergency rooms and public services—at taxpayer expense. Yes Americans! Not just Mexicans or any other illegal alien whether they are Irish, French, Chinese, etc.

Let me repeat that.......When Wal-Mart comes to town, consumers often pay more than they save. Not only does Wal-Mart ask taxpayers to subsidize the building of its giant retail stores, Wal-Mart pays its workers so little they regularly are forced to use emergency rooms and public services—at taxpayer expense.

First, the company usually asks for massive public tax subsidies and exemptions to build one of its big-box stores. Over the past 20 years, taxpayers have contributed at least $1 billion in subsidies to Wal-Mart stores and distribution centers, as well as to developers of shopping centers anchored by Wal-Mart stores, according to Good Jobs First, a nonprofit research group.

* A 2001 study commissioned by the city of Barnstable, Mass., found big-box retailers such as Wal-Mart annually depleted the town’s revenues by $794 per 1,000 square feet due to higher road maintenance costs and greater demand for public safety services.
* Elected officials in Cathedral City, Calif., gave Wal-Mart $1.8 million in tax rebates 10 years ago. Last year, when the city finally began getting its full $800,000 in annual sales taxes from the two stores, Wal-Mart decided to close them in 2005 and build a new supercenter in nearby Palm Desert. Cathedral City officials learned Wal-Mart was moving out after reading about it in the newspaper—at a time when the city already had a $3 million deficit.

Next, Wal-Mart makes taxpayers pick up the health care tab for its employees. While 66 percent of workers at large U.S. firms get health coverage on the job, fewer than half of Wal-Mart workers do, an October 2003 AFL-CIO report finds. As a result, Wal-Mart workers are forced to use emergency rooms and public services for their health care needs.

* The average Wal-Mart costs taxpayers an estimated $108,000 a year for its workers’ children who are enrolled in state children’s health insurance programs, according to Everyday Low Wages: The Hidden Price We All Pay for Wal-Mart.
* California taxpayers pay $86 million annually for such public programs as health care and subsidized housing that low-wage Wal-Mart workers rely on, according to an August 2004 report from the Institute for Labor and Employment at the University of California, Berkeley.
* A growing list of states—Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee, Washington, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, West Virginia and Connecticut—report Wal-Mart as the #1 beneficiary or among the top corporate beneficiaries of its public health program for children's health care. Currently, 12 states have introduced legislation to require states to disclose which employers are shifting health care costs to taxpayers and another 27 have, or plan to introduce, such legislation. Championed by members of the National Labor Caucus of State Legislators, the legislation is designed to help measure the costs to state health care programs when large and profitable employers such as Wal-Mart skimp on coverage.
* Wal-Mart has a health plan. But because few workers can afford it on the wages Wal-Mart pays, the company instead encourages its workers to apply for public assistance.

Recognizing the huge costs taxpayers bear when Wal-Mart moves into an area, communities have begun standing up to the giant retailer. In Franklin, Wis., a coalition of union, consumer and environmental activists in July 2004 won passage of a size ordinance covering retail stores that stopped development of a proposed 184,000-square-foot Wal-Mart supercenter selling groceries as well as other goods. In Los Angeles, activists won passage of a city ordinance in August 2004 requiring retailers such as Wal-Mart to pay for economic analyses showing whether proposed supercenters would eliminate community jobs, depress wages or harm neighborhood businesses.

“They are not good neighbors. Their low-wage jobs have no health care,” says Cathedral City Mayor Pro Tem Greg Pettis. He advises other local leaders letting Wal-Marts in their community is “the biggest mistake” they can make with public money.

timoska
09-29-2009, 09:53 PM
It's only for the 5% of the people who can't afford it that will be covered

Right, keep telling yourself that.



Oh boy here we go again!lUPMjC9mq5Y

It's no mystery that the only people being shown in the video were selectively chosen by the person editing the video; aside from the fact that the people in the video only represent about 2% of the people that attended. Surely you can come up with something better then that cheesy video.

Just because you strongly believe in something doesn't make it the truth; no matter how you try to force your beliefs upon people.

Rico
09-29-2009, 10:08 PM
Tim, look around your neighborhood, the majority of them are scraping by.
If a major pandemic was to hit, what makes you think that you will be immuned to them. That's all I have to say.

Oh and as I work in the public sector, I sure as hell do not want to get sick from some kid who's parents couldn't afford health care.

Instead of criticizing, how about coming up with a solution.

xNuCfD5bICQ

Rico
09-29-2009, 11:41 PM
Right, keep telling yourself that.




It's no mystery that the only people being shown in the video were selectively chosen by the person editing the video; aside from the fact that the people in the video only represent about 2% of the people that attended. Surely you can come up with something better then that cheesy video.

Just because you strongly believe in something doesn't make it the truth; no matter how you try to force your beliefs upon people.

Well I'd like to see at least 1 of the 98% come up with one logical answer instead of reciting a Faux News headline.

To be honest, your concerns have crossed my mind, in my case it wouldn't be possible, because I have a Union job. You do have a right to be concerned, especially if you were to work for a company like Wal-Mart.

But besides that, you've got to at least come up with some supporting evidence that has even an ounce of intelligent evidence besides what is being blasted on Faux news, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, the fucking hypocritical Christian media stations, crooked politicians, or any other ignoramus who's getting paid large amounts of money to foil a public health care system.

Tim you know that most of my beliefs have been backed by evidence, video documentaries, and supporting documentation, and you know as well as I do that many of those beliefs have come true. You've said it yourself.

Denial of the past 8 years and denial of existing issues does not make the problems go away, it only makes the problem bigger.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/041...-companies-psa

Now as far as Obama wanting to extend the school year or school days, I do not agree with it. That is a whole other debate. Shit our budgets have been cut, people have been laid off, programs have been shut down, and they want us to work harder? Fuck that! That's like the BS "No Child Left Behind Act" that Bush pushed without any funding. All it's done is waste time and money.

Thom
09-30-2009, 12:03 AM
I wish someone would say "obamacare" again.

I own a chapter "s" Corp. And if "obamacare" is better than the crap I pay a shitload for that can drop us at their whim.?
And we have the option of taking it?
Then sign me the fuck up and I will be able to pass on the saving as raises and Improvements.

I have never seen so many fuckheads stick up for insurance companies who don't even actually provide ANY health services. Just operate on a bottom line....and make money by refusing services to people.

People sure are shitty...

ErnyDog
09-30-2009, 12:45 AM
I've heard several comments regarding the fact that if you already have healthcare with your employer, it's not going to change.

However, I can't keep wondering if my company will continue to find it feasible to pay for great healthcare when the employees could just be placed on the ObamaCare plan for free. Seems like saving a shitload of money would be very appealing to the already overpaid executives.

This rings closer to home to those that have government jobs, since the people they work for are the ones putting ObamaCare into action.

In addition, since it's more likely most companies will stop paying for something that is offered for free, say goodbye to private hospitals. There is no way they will be able to function with the limited amount of money they would be getting at that point. I hope ObamaCare has enough funding to replace the private hospitals in their current locations.

The question of whether there will be enough to facilitate everyone, once everyone is on ObamaCare, also comes to mind. Seems like a bad situation is going to be made even worse.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with the emphasis on it being the humanitarian thing to do. It's just that there are still many questions that remain unanswered.

When looking at ObamaCare from this perspective, it sure reminds me of that One World Nation video Rico forced me to watch. See you all in the three block line for your check ups :no:
:iagree::bonk::iagree::bonk::iagree::bonk::iagree: :bonk::iagree::liar::smiliesex:WE ALL FUCKED IN THE END....... ONE WAY OR ANOTHER..........

joe
09-30-2009, 02:00 AM
regardless of any plan or insurance reform, healthcare is too expensive and we must lower the cost of healthcare. makes no sense to insure something you cannot control the cost of.

provide coverage for those who cannot provide for themselves.

don't junk a system that works for 90% of the people.

don't punish small businesses either.

that's all I ask.

Honest Mike
09-30-2009, 03:33 AM
YouTube - "We're Number 37" - Paul Hipp

-Honest

Rico
09-30-2009, 09:55 AM
YouTube - Town Hall Terrorists

vespaden
09-30-2009, 09:59 AM
I guess if you like to pay a shit-load of money to a faceless un-accountable insurance monolith - and then get denied coverage when you need it - the current system is working great for you. Hopefully you don't lose your job, and hence the privlege of even having the option of bending over for an insurance company reaming.

Insurance companies don't make money by paying for claims. They have massive resources devoted to the sole purpose of denying people for valid claims. They don't give a shit about you. They have armies of lawyers on-call waiting to respond if you try to fight their absurd denials. Wait until you have something bad happen that is very expensive for them to pay-out, and then you'll see what I'm talking about.

Alas, our health system is broken. The big corporations that benefit the most from the current system will fight tooth and nail to protect their cash cow. Just because they make massive profits from the way things work now doesn't mean it is good for you. As anyone who has lived in Europe will tell you first hand, you can have excellent health insurance for far less cost than what we have here. I don't know about you, but I like getting the same stuff for less money...

Thom
09-30-2009, 10:08 AM
I guess if you like to pay a shit-load of money to a faceless un-accountable insurance monolith - and then get denied coverage when you need it - the current system is working great for you. Hopefully you don't lose your job, and hence the privlege of even having the option of bending over for an insurance company reaming.

Insurance companies don't make money by paying for claims. They have massive resources devoted to the sole purpose of denying people for valid claims. They don't give a shit about you. They have armies of lawyers on-call waiting to respond if you try to fight their absurd denials. Wait until you have something bad happen that is very expensive for them to pay-out, and then you'll see what I'm talking about.

Alas, our health system is broken. The big corporations that benefit the most from the current system will fight tooth and nail to protect their cash cow. Just because they make massive profits from the way things work now doesn't mean it is good for you. As anyone who has lived in Europe will tell you first hand, you can have excellent health insurance for far less cost than what we have here. I don't know about you, but I like getting the same stuff for less money...




Sing it......
And their lobbyists are going at it right now to keep the status quo in place.
Doesnt help that our health care debate is seemingly shaped by nutbags from more rural states as well.
(Although in their defense (if I understand correctly) they arent recieving the same payouts from medicare that say...California would)...

Which means less money to keep hospitals open & of course 30 second commercials like " Bill Fuckwit doesnt care about your hospitals...he let them all close down...do you want Bill Fuckwit in charge?....I dont")

Broken is never good.....
And they are trying to kick any public option right to the garbage can.
Baucus can suck one as well.....

joe
09-30-2009, 01:12 PM
fucked up insurance coverage is just a symptom of the bigger problem. you can junk the current system, put all the insurance companies out of business, create a taxpayer funded single option plan for everyone, and you'll still have healthcare that costs too much to insure.

Rob78Rally
09-30-2009, 06:21 PM
A clear majority of Americans -- 72 percent -- support a government-sponsored health care plan to compete with private insurers, a new CBS News/New York Times poll finds. Most also think the government would do a better job than private industry at keeping down costs and believe that the government should guarantee health care for all Americans.

ENOUGH SAID ON THIS ISSUE. GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT AND FUCK THE INSURANCE CO's.

Thom
09-30-2009, 09:22 PM
A clear majority of Americans -- 72 percent -- support a government-sponsored health care plan to compete with private insurers, a new CBS News/New York Times poll finds. Most also think the government would do a better job than private industry at keeping down costs and believe that the government should guarantee health care for all Americans.

ENOUGH SAID ON THIS ISSUE. GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT AND FUCK THE INSURANCE CO's.

Nicely put.